Talk:J Friends
Reading too much into it? Is the fact that these characters share the same first name as four Sesame crew members an intentional inside joke or just an interesting coincidence? I mean they are all pretty common names. They could have also used Jerry (Nelson) or Jeff (Moss) - both of whom were directly involved in this song - as choices for characters here. I mean was using the name Jane for one of the girls an intentional nod to Jane Henson or just trival happenstance? There aren't many J names out there that couldn't be linked to a Sesame Street crew member and thus be claimed as an inside joke. Are we reading too much into what were just four common and convenient J names (especially since aside from Jim Henson, none are shared with anyone directly involved in this song/skit). -- Brad D. (talk) 23:32, 27 September 2008 (UTC) :I read that this was done on purpose, but of course I can't remember where I saw it. But I know that other shows (like Taxi) used to use cast and crew names for gags and inside jokes, so it's possible they did it here, too. -- Ken (talk) 23:55, 27 September 2008 (UTC) ::The sentence is simple: "The names in the song are the names of people behind the scenes: Joe (Raposo), Jane (Henson), Jim (Henson) and Joan (Ganz Cooney)." That's a fact. This was an early skit and Sesame (and other Muppet productions) have a long history of including casual references to cast or crew names (Kermit talking off-camera to "Dulcy," character's named "Oznowicz" or something close, and tons of others.) Just in this case the names happen to be more common. The wording sounds neutral and factual to me (it doesn't say "pays tribute to" or anything). I'd be fine with taking it off the Inside Jokes page if it's really seen as a problem, but outside of that, I fail to see any issue (and as for "direct involvement," Raposo was musical director and bandleader at the time and Coonery was overall producer of the show in it's second season or so, so again, it doesn't seem dubious, and if anything, the close proximity makes intent more likely than an isolated case of some character named Joe). -- Andrew Leal (talk) 00:03, 28 September 2008 (UTC) :::If we had a source, I'd have no problem! But without one it's hard to say if it was an intentional inside joke to those four individuals or just a trival coincidence. If I was writing a show or song, I'm sure I would likely draw upon the names of friends, family or co-workers - but we don't know what Jeff Moss was thinking when he came up with these four names or where (or from whom) he got them from. I mean there are a lot of Joes and Jims in the world (and on this wiki). Yes, it is a fact that they share names with crew members. But was the name Jim a nod to Jim Henson or stage manager Jim Baylor? Was Joe refering to Joe Raposo or editor Joe Commare? Did Joan come from Joan Ganz Cooney or associate producer Joan Lufrano? And was Jane a nod to Jane Henson or show assistant Jane O'Connor? For all we know Jeff Moss's neighbors names were named Jim, Joe, Joan and Jane. When it's a fairly unique name (such as "Oznowicz" or "Goelz"), or they share names with their performer/voice (Richard, Jim, Little Chrissy) or when it's a fairly strong coincidence (such as the 5 children of the old lady in a shoe sharing the exact names of Jim's five children), it seems noteworthy. But this seems a little thin and questionablly trivial without a source - especially since they are such common names and (although all are associated with the show) they're connections of various degrees and from different areas. I just don't feel confident enough that Jane came from Jane Henson for us to imply there was a connection in the naming. -- Brad D. (talk) 00:36, 28 September 2008 (UTC) ::::Like I said, the issue really doesn't seem to apply to this article as written.The text doesn't even say "named after," just that they share the name, so it's all neutral and factual (and as for being really trivial, we have far more nitpicky and less relevant notes all around the Wiki). If you want to take it out of Inside Jokes, though, go ahead. We know that at this point, the Muppets were still basically subcontracted so the editor and stage manager and associate researcher stuff you point out couldn't reasonably factor into it at all (later on, there was less of a division), whereas the specific Jim, Joe, Jane, and Joan as named worked together on a regular basis and often made references to one another, either first names or full names. If Jane's the only one really bothering you, take that out, but the sentence just says they share names and that's pretty inarguable. -- Andrew Leal (talk) 00:47, 28 September 2008 (UTC) :::::So long as we're not saying they're undoubtedly named after them, I think it's okay for us to say, "Oh hey by the way, these important Sesame people just happen to have the same J names. Isn't that fun?" Except, y'know... not exactly. —Scott (talk) 14:18, 1 October 2008 (UTC)